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	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s Linuxgiving season: My recent experiences with some Linux distros</title>
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	<link>http://standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2009/11/26/its-linuxgiving-season-my-recent-experiences-with-some-of-linux-distros/</link>
	<description>A weblog by Charles-H. Schulz.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:53:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Is it Time For Arch in the Workshop? &#124; LearnByDoingIT</title>
		<link>http://standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2009/11/26/its-linuxgiving-season-my-recent-experiences-with-some-of-linux-distros/comment-page-1/#comment-3150</link>
		<dc:creator>Is it Time For Arch in the Workshop? &#124; LearnByDoingIT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 20:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2009/11/26/its-linuxgiving-season-my-recent-experiences-with-some-of-linux-distros/#comment-3150</guid>
		<description>[...] while having installed Linux several times on my family and friends’ computers. You can read in this previous post of mine that while my “usual” distribution was Fedora I had some rough issues with the upgrade from [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] while having installed Linux several times on my family and friends’ computers. You can read in this previous post of mine that while my “usual” distribution was Fedora I had some rough issues with the upgrade from [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Arch Linux makes Linux fun to use again. &#124; Moved by Freedom - Powered by Standards</title>
		<link>http://standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2009/11/26/its-linuxgiving-season-my-recent-experiences-with-some-of-linux-distros/comment-page-1/#comment-3075</link>
		<dc:creator>Arch Linux makes Linux fun to use again. &#124; Moved by Freedom - Powered by Standards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:12:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2009/11/26/its-linuxgiving-season-my-recent-experiences-with-some-of-linux-distros/#comment-3075</guid>
		<description>[...] having installed Linux several times on my family and friends&#8217; computers. You can read in this previous post of mine that while my &#8220;usual&#8221; distribution was Fedora I had some rough issues with the upgrade [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] having installed Linux several times on my family and friends&#8217; computers. You can read in this previous post of mine that while my &#8220;usual&#8221; distribution was Fedora I had some rough issues with the upgrade [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2009/11/26/its-linuxgiving-season-my-recent-experiences-with-some-of-linux-distros/comment-page-1/#comment-2856</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 14:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2009/11/26/its-linuxgiving-season-my-recent-experiences-with-some-of-linux-distros/#comment-2856</guid>
		<description>Adam,

You are right on all the points you quote (and I apologize for my statement about preupgrade) but what I really pointed out to was the lack of preparation and information on the upgrade process to FC 12.

I&#039;m pretty sure FC 12, if cleanly installed, works well. What does not seem to have worked for me was the upgrade process that basically turned everything rough (and graphical drivers for nvidia used to work well for me even with nouveau on my fc 11) into something that I felt was not worth fixing. My criticism is there, in a nutshell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam,</p>
<p>You are right on all the points you quote (and I apologize for my statement about preupgrade) but what I really pointed out to was the lack of preparation and information on the upgrade process to FC 12.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure FC 12, if cleanly installed, works well. What does not seem to have worked for me was the upgrade process that basically turned everything rough (and graphical drivers for nvidia used to work well for me even with nouveau on my fc 11) into something that I felt was not worth fixing. My criticism is there, in a nutshell.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Williamson</title>
		<link>http://standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2009/11/26/its-linuxgiving-season-my-recent-experiences-with-some-of-linux-distros/comment-page-1/#comment-2843</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Williamson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 18:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2009/11/26/its-linuxgiving-season-my-recent-experiences-with-some-of-linux-distros/#comment-2843</guid>
		<description>&quot;First, the special software used to upgrade distributions, “preupgrade” had a bug and was only discovered 24 hours before the release&quot;

This is not correct. The bug to which I presume you&#039;re referring (calculation of free space in /boot) was discovered over a week before release, and an updated preupgrade was sent to updates-testing for F10 and F11 in advance of the official release. The issue was fully documented on the Common Bugs page, which is referred to in all documentation, before the release, including links to the updated preupgrade packages.

&quot;I discovered afterwards that there was no available drivers for nvidia cards on Fedora 12, either free or proprietary (or rather that the packages were not ready yet).&quot;

This is also not correct. Fedora 12 includes the best free driver, nouveau. Of course we would not ship a release with no drivers for NVIDIA cards, that would be absurd.

&quot;But the live system would not recognize my wireless network nor would it even link to any driver for 3D.&quot;

Fedora does not supply, support or encourage the use of proprietary drivers, by policy. The Fedora project believes in the importance of free / open source software. So, no, we will not direct you to proprietary drivers for your graphics card. This is not a bug, it&#039;s feature. ;)

It sounds like you tried to preupgrade from a system with third-party packages installed. It&#039;s difficult to guarantee that this will produce a good result. We should probably flag this up better on the preupgrade instructions.

I can&#039;t tell you what&#039;s going on with your wireless card without actually knowing what it is, but likely it requires a driver that&#039;s either proprietary or not of sufficient quality to be included in Fedora&#039;s kernel. The Fedora kernel team does not accept drivers which are of a low enough standard that they have no hope of being integrated into the main kernel in time; this is to encourage the development of proper quality drivers. Again, this is a policy decision made for important reasons; you may not agree with it, but it&#039;s not just that we suck. :)

Some of these low-quality drivers are made available by the third-party RPM Fusion repository, however.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;First, the special software used to upgrade distributions, “preupgrade” had a bug and was only discovered 24 hours before the release&#8221;</p>
<p>This is not correct. The bug to which I presume you&#8217;re referring (calculation of free space in /boot) was discovered over a week before release, and an updated preupgrade was sent to updates-testing for F10 and F11 in advance of the official release. The issue was fully documented on the Common Bugs page, which is referred to in all documentation, before the release, including links to the updated preupgrade packages.</p>
<p>&#8220;I discovered afterwards that there was no available drivers for nvidia cards on Fedora 12, either free or proprietary (or rather that the packages were not ready yet).&#8221;</p>
<p>This is also not correct. Fedora 12 includes the best free driver, nouveau. Of course we would not ship a release with no drivers for NVIDIA cards, that would be absurd.</p>
<p>&#8220;But the live system would not recognize my wireless network nor would it even link to any driver for 3D.&#8221;</p>
<p>Fedora does not supply, support or encourage the use of proprietary drivers, by policy. The Fedora project believes in the importance of free / open source software. So, no, we will not direct you to proprietary drivers for your graphics card. This is not a bug, it&#8217;s feature. <img src='http://standardsandfreedom.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>It sounds like you tried to preupgrade from a system with third-party packages installed. It&#8217;s difficult to guarantee that this will produce a good result. We should probably flag this up better on the preupgrade instructions.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t tell you what&#8217;s going on with your wireless card without actually knowing what it is, but likely it requires a driver that&#8217;s either proprietary or not of sufficient quality to be included in Fedora&#8217;s kernel. The Fedora kernel team does not accept drivers which are of a low enough standard that they have no hope of being integrated into the main kernel in time; this is to encourage the development of proper quality drivers. Again, this is a policy decision made for important reasons; you may not agree with it, but it&#8217;s not just that we suck. <img src='http://standardsandfreedom.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Some of these low-quality drivers are made available by the third-party RPM Fusion repository, however.</p>
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		<title>By: Links 26/11/2009: Cringely Likes Chrome OS, Ulteo Open Virtual Desktop 2.0 is Out &#124; Boycott Novell</title>
		<link>http://standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2009/11/26/its-linuxgiving-season-my-recent-experiences-with-some-of-linux-distros/comment-page-1/#comment-2841</link>
		<dc:creator>Links 26/11/2009: Cringely Likes Chrome OS, Ulteo Open Virtual Desktop 2.0 is Out &#124; Boycott Novell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 03:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2009/11/26/its-linuxgiving-season-my-recent-experiences-with-some-of-linux-distros/#comment-2841</guid>
		<description>[...] It’s Linuxgiving season: My recent experiences with some Linux distros Fall season is one of the busiest times for Linux distributions, and this year is also a very busy time for me. Ever since two years now I gradually migrated family and friends to Linux. This year these new Linux users gave me quite some work, especially on week-ends, and my own upgrade gave me quite some work. You might think that the people I installed Linux systems on their laptops would be autonomous and relying on forums when help were needed. Think again: Usability of every day applications may have never been easy, but installing new applications is something that still has not gotten through them, at least on a regular basis, and this means they rely on their favourite system administrator (me) to fix whatever issues they have. But it’s somewhat of a vicious circle, because I guess I enjoy helping them myself, and to add to the pleasure I installed different distributions for each of them. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] It’s Linuxgiving season: My recent experiences with some Linux distros Fall season is one of the busiest times for Linux distributions, and this year is also a very busy time for me. Ever since two years now I gradually migrated family and friends to Linux. This year these new Linux users gave me quite some work, especially on week-ends, and my own upgrade gave me quite some work. You might think that the people I installed Linux systems on their laptops would be autonomous and relying on forums when help were needed. Think again: Usability of every day applications may have never been easy, but installing new applications is something that still has not gotten through them, at least on a regular basis, and this means they rely on their favourite system administrator (me) to fix whatever issues they have. But it’s somewhat of a vicious circle, because I guess I enjoy helping them myself, and to add to the pleasure I installed different distributions for each of them. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Opensuse 11.2 Firefox loads Google when any link is clicked - openSUSE Forums</title>
		<link>http://standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2009/11/26/its-linuxgiving-season-my-recent-experiences-with-some-of-linux-distros/comment-page-1/#comment-2839</link>
		<dc:creator>Opensuse 11.2 Firefox loads Google when any link is clicked - openSUSE Forums</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 23:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2009/11/26/its-linuxgiving-season-my-recent-experiences-with-some-of-linux-distros/#comment-2839</guid>
		<description>[...] My default browser is Firefox. It is set to open when I open rss feeds in akregator. I just opened It&#8217;s Linuxgiving season: My recent experiences with some Linux distros &#124; Moved by Freedom - Po...  When I clicked on the &quot;Read More&quot; link to load the full article, it reloaded the same [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] My default browser is Firefox. It is set to open when I open rss feeds in akregator. I just opened It&#8217;s Linuxgiving season: My recent experiences with some Linux distros | Moved by Freedom &#8211; Po&#8230;  When I clicked on the &quot;Read More&quot; link to load the full article, it reloaded the same [...]</p>
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